Recovery run. Ran on the treadmill due to slippery conditions outside. A light snow on top of ice provides about the worst traction possible, so to avoid injury I just hit the mill. Interrupted a couple of times by kids waking up too early, but otherwise uneventful.
Run Two | Weather | Supplemental | Nutrition | Sleep | Injury
13 comments:
Miles, miles, miles.
How's the aerobic threshold?
Relatively weak, I think. I'm including a hard run once a week and noticing that when I hit a relatively slow tempo pace (like 5:40-5:50), it feels a bit beyond threshold. Breathing goes to hell. AT definitely got weaker following the injury, and I think that is trickling down into feeling maxed out at some slower paces.
That said, I'm averaging 30 seconds per mile better paces than my last base build, and the high volume feels much better this time around already. Once the AT work kicks in, things should change for the better in a hurry.
Good progress on the miles, and the weather sure as hell makes tempo play difficult, if not risky. 5 1/2 months out isn't too soon for building the AT. I'd be glad to go over more of that if you'd like.
I'm thinking Anaerobic threshold, but you wrote aerobic threshold, which is a whole different thing. Definitely tell me more about what you're thinking.
Simply put aerobic threshold training is the level of training just before the anaerobic systems are utilized. Anaerobic threshold training extends your capacity to operate anaerobically (for the marathon, you need to do very very little of this, if none at all).
Aerobic threshold training is aerobic, but just barely. It's not easy. I've always referred to it as "scratching the surface" training. Just a little faster, and you're down the rabbit hole. Any slower, and you're just jogging (metabolically).
My only fast marathon was a half-assed effort after being disillusiones with track failures. That said, I ran 2:36 at altitude off of 3 months of just really long mtn running following 4:05 mile fitness. So my threshold was very fast. The ability to easily run 5:45's does not come with long, steady 6:30's; you've got to hang out in the twilight zone a lot more.
Two weeks ago I ran a 20 miler at 6:32 pace with a 149 average heart rate, about 83% of my max. I'm not sure what you mean by 'twilight zone', but I think that's it. At least by mile 18 I felt like I was in the twilight zone.
Around weeks 10-12 out from the TCM buildup, I did three 22 milers at steady paces, a little faster, but approximately the same effort, maybe 85-87% max. It felt like those did me a world of good at the time. It was not long after those that I did the sub 1:30 fifteen miler feeling really strong and controlled.
Is this the zone or are you thinking something different?
You're highlighting, by elimination, a third piece here - economy. Pace economy (ability to run easily at faster paces) comes two ways - increased aerobic capacity and improved neuromuscular efficiency.
Running AT threshold efforts in your 22 milers is good training, but as you point out, it was slower than goal race pace. To race a marathon at 5:45 pace, you need to be comfortable running significantly faster than that for shorter distances. Fartlek running, hill running, etc. all improve neuromusclar efficiency.
When I was in Eugene, I had a 12 week period where I averaged about 100 miles a week. I had built up to this, and at the beginning of the period, I had a measured single-track trail run (MacKenzie river trail - amazing) that crossed rivers, jumped logs, climbed hills, etc. - first time I did it in 2:23. I started heavy-duty AT training - long fartlek running, hill repeats, timed 4-milers, etc., but kept it aerobic. In 8 weeks, I did the same run in 2:00:24 (should have used the training for a marathon, but blew it).
Point is, you can benefit substantially from sub-race pace training. You need to know your body, and you can't race the clock. If you push too hard to meet a mark (that you can post on your blog), you risk overtraining and not optimizing your aerobic development.
Folks will say - don't do it, man, don't listen to him, you'll peak too soon, you're on track. The "you can hold a peak for 6 weeks" test is true, and it refers to anaerobic threshold training. Anaerobic training lowers your blood pH, and helps develop lactic acid tolerance; you cannot maintian that blood chemistry indefinitely. That training is all but irrelevant for your goals in the marathon.
This is a long post, and I'm sorry, but if I can summarize - LSD builds muscular endurance - AT training builds aerobic capacity - you need lots of both, and neither comes fast.
Eric, damn glad I checked on your comments as these are some good points being discussed.
I would have to disagree with fatboy's statement "Anaerobic threshold training extends your capacity to operate anaerobically (for the marathon, you need to do very very little of this, if none at all)." Anaerobic threshold training or even repetitions actually has been shown to improve aerobic efficiency to a greater degree than aerobic methods alone. It is excessive use of anaerobic methods that causes problems but anaerobic work is critical for maximum aerobic efficiency which is critical for the marathon.
I think I know where you are coming from Fatboy. This all meshes well with the 'train, don't strain' concept of Lydiard and his admonishment that base training is not simply 'easy running'. It's something I have been reading and thinking about a lot lately. I've been hesitant to introduce much faster stuff due to the weather, road conditions, and some lingering effects from the 'TV Incident', but as I get myself over those hurdles, I'll be adding more quality to my base phase. I tried doing a fartlek a couple of weeks ago and tweaked my quad again, so I'm being careful, but I am ready to add some stronger efforts.
anonymous (if that's your real name), good call. I've seen it cited widely that anaerobic effort contributes less than one percent to the marathon, which implies that if the system isn't used, it doesn't need to be developed. However, once that system is developed, it has some significant benefits to the overwhelmingly aerobic performance. Nearly the opposite would be true in something like an 800m race. Highly anaerobic, but aerobic development is hugely important nonetheless.
Anyway, none of this tells me what I am interested to know: how do I key in on the right kinds of aerobic efforts during the base phase? I'm very keen to try what Andrew has been doing, which is basically MP and slightly faster than MP efforts during his key workouts, supplemented with plenty of volume.
Anyone care to weigh in on that question? Please?
Thanks for the discussion, by the way. Very good stuff!
I mentioned this kinds of stuff in your last build-up; here's what's been effective for me:
6 x 10 minutes, 5 min recoveries (similar to what you did in your 20 mile
12-15 x 5 minutes; 3 min. recoveries - lets you go a little faster; alternate weekly w/ 6 x 10
1 hour of 300m hills; count # of reps, avg. time of rep; weekly, weather-permitting; watch the reps increase and the average time decrease over the weeks;
3 x 20 min - marathon race pace; 10 min. recovery; as you get closer to race day - boost this to 3 x 10k; once a month
I'd stay off the track for now. Sharpening for race day can bring fun stuff like 10 x 1k, 12 x 800m, etc. but that's a long ways off.
Why all the rest Fatboy? I got some unintentional good rest in during mile 26 of my marathon, but as a rule I try not to take a rest interval during the race.
I'm obviously a fan of longer, but slightly slower steady state efforts. I can see how running faster paces can help running economy but wouldn't running for a longer period of time without a rest interval be more specific for the task at hand and still build efficiency (say 95-110 percent of marathon pace)?
I see a time for rest intervals, and it's during the anaerobic work that comes later. Run fast, pull the oxygen and PH levels down, let them build up during the rest interval and repeat as necessary. I think this should come later.
The rest intervals described here actually work well for me. The time for no rest will come later in the build. These are like Daniels's cruise intervals. By using the recovery periods, you can do more work at the higher intensities than if you did all the work with no rest.
That's my take.
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